Healthwatch on 09/10/12

I heard Kyleigh's giggling voice about 2/3 of the time and was shocked when she actually asked, "Am I going to get to speak here?" I wanted to hear more from Dr. Connett. He seemed well-informed on the subject. Kyleigh merely regurgitated scripted ADA speeches.
Kyleigh told some outright lies. She said that millions and millions of people in Western Europe have fluoridated water. Only 2% of Western Europe has fluoridated water and their teeth are not worse off for the lack of fluoridation. She claimed that we could expect no harm whatsoever from fluoride, even though it is well known that fluoride can cause skeletal fluorosis. As a matter of fact, most of what Kyleigh said was a lie. Kyleigh was rude and condescending and attempted to marginalize an emeritus professor of chemistry and toxicology, a man educated at Cambrige and Dartmouth as a crazy conspiracy theorist. This demonization of the opposition is characteristic of pro-fluoride groups. I hope the intelligent people of Portland can see through this guise.
Fluoridation is forced medication, pure and simple. Only I have the right to decide what is healthy for my body. If you want fluoride, go get yourself some inexpensive fluoride tablets for you and your family. That choice is yours. Let me decide what is best for my family.

Kylie did an excellent job staying focused in a dialog that was leaning toward personal attack. Instigated by Paul Connet. The first poster is an example of what his kind of attack breeds - disregard for woman's voices in the community. What some may call "giggly" (Would a man be called giggly?). Personally, her response showed a lot of grace under fire - She was attacked repeatedly by Dr. Connet for simply standing her ground. She had a lot of guts to confront a man who is paid to do just this kind of event all over the county and has been for years.
I did appreciated how the interviewer was willing to point out that even those articles that wanted more study on some aspect of the topic were still supportive of continuing community water fluordiation. He really tried to keep the dialog balanced, even though his out of town guest kept trying to change the tone away to one of personal attack.
Also, Western Europe, if you include Ireland, England, and Spain does have millions of people receving fluoridated water. Don't forget that most of Europe has salt fluoridation http://tinyurl.com/cycq48q. Italy generally has natural fluoridation at the level best for teeth and therefore doesn't need fluoridation.
This is why the city council needs to make this decision. Why drag the 70 plus organizations into the mud with personal and unfounded attacks that take away from the time they could be spending working on other great projects. The science supports fluoridation and the majority of the Country has it. We elect council members to make the best decisions for the people. This is not a direct democracy, but closer to a representative democracy. Their job is to represent our best interests, in this case, the Mayor and the council are doing it well. 

I am so glad to hear Dr. Connett speak on this issue.
I hear people arguing back and forth about the science of fluoride. There simply is not enough science about the safety of fluoride out there for anybody to be "right." Fluoride is also not something that we would naturally need to imbibe for our health. There is no body process for which we need fluoride. It replaces iodine (another halogen) in our bodies, which is why it can easily damage the thyroid as well as make the bones brittle. When we have enough iodine in our diets (which most Americans don't), our tooth enamel is strong enough, our bones are strong but not brittle and our thyroids have the best chance for health. Replacing this natural component with fluoride makes no sense. Why did neanderthals have perfect, cavity-free teeth while never drinking fluoridated water? The arguments can go on and on, but in reality, this is a civil liberties issue.
I have a right to choose not to be vaccinated or for my children not to be vaccinated. I have a right to choose to use a naturopath or Chinese medicine doctor, to go with natural herbal therapies rather than Western medicine. This goes on and on because they are my constitutional rights. Even IF FLUORIDE IS THE AMAZING PANACEA FOR OUR TEETH that a master's in public health *knows* that it is, I still have a right not to be forced to take it because the basic liberties that I am afforded as a citizen of this country make it so.
Shall we put Vitamin D in the water so that we don't have to remember to take it or be bothered to get enough sunlight? Almost all Americans are deficient in that and it's actually something our bodies NEED, not something that is simply filling in the spot for a nutrient that we don't eat enough of.
Shall we put other medications in our water? It's not okay to use my drinking water as a vector for medicating me nor my children because it violates my civil liberties. For those who think they know more than I do, or really, more than the poor (which is a big piece of this argument, the rich and the educated deciding this for the poor) - as soon as you decide that your greater knowledge makes it okay for you to violate my civil liberties, you have started pulling the bricks out of the foundation that this country is built on.

I noticed that Oregon has more poverty than Washington maybe this is why there are more caries in Oregon?  Those that are in poverty are probably drinking more tap water and less bottled water.  Poorer people also tend to eat worse diets.
Diet is the major factor in dental caries. 
http://www.curetoothdecay.com/Tooth_Decay/why_cavities_happen.htm
Curing tooth decay requires a good diet to provide the right minerals.
Also I take issue with Kylie saying her breast milk does not provide the right nutrition for her baby.  If that is indeed the case its because she isn't eating all of the nutrients her baby needs.  Breast milk is the most complete source of nutrition for a baby and will contain everything the baby needs without supplementation if the diet is good.
She needs to do some more research about nutrition if she actually believes that.  A good start would be readinging curetoothdecay.com and watching the Youtube video.

Kylie did a very good job of doing her job. She was hired to defend fluoridation, was taught what to say and did as she practiced.
Who approached the organizations Kylie represents and what did they say. Those 70 organizations didn't have their own idea to jump into this coalition. They were lobbied just as the Portland city council was - behind closed doors and without any fact-checking going on. I wonder if the same misinformation about the NRC Report and Dr. Connett's book was the basis for the 70 organizations jumping on this bandwagon.
However, while Kylie seems like a very nice person, I wonder what made her insult a scientist to his face about a book she didn't even read. Dr. Connett put at least a year's worth of work into that book, along with two other scientists, making sure every allegation was scientifically referenced and Kylie said it was fearmongering. What a mean thing to do. And to suggest he makes money off of it is laughable and more indicative of lack of research devoted by those who promote fluoridation

I would like Kyle to provide you and us with the studies which show that fluoridation is safe for babies, kidney patients, the thyroid gland, high water drinkers. Show us the US studies which show no detirmental fluoride/brain effects. Show us the evidence that fluoridation has leveled out tooth decay between poor and non-poor
She represents 70 medical, health and other organizations. Surely they can help her out.

For a clear, readable and evidence-based evaluation on the fluoridation of water, see the following article by Dr. Ted Schettler, Science Director of the Science and Environmental Health Network:

Commentary -- Adding Fluoride To Drinking Water: A Good Idea? 8/2/07
http://www.rachel.org/?q=en/node/291
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_6422.cfm

Schettler concludes, in part:

** intentionally fluoridating community drinking water is no longer justified. Adding fluoride to drinking water for the purpose of preventing tooth decay provides virtually no population-wide margin of safety. Under current circumstances, people should not be essentially forced to drink water treated with fluoride when dental benefits can be achieved through topical application and other means.

** An immediate moratorium on the practice of adding fluoride to community drinking water is justified. Risks, benefits, efficacy, and alternatives must be fully, impartially, and transparently re- evaluated, based on current information and data gaps. Moreover, an ethical review of the practice is warranted. [...]

See also Dr. Kathleen M. Thiessen's evaluation at the link below. Dr. Thiessen "served on two subcommittees of the National Research Council’s Committee on Toxicology that dealt with fluoride exposure and toxicity, including the NRC’s Committee on Fluoride in Drinking Water [and] authored an Environmental Protection Agency report on fluoride toxicity." [p. 1]

Comments on EPA's Fluoride Risk Assessment and Relative Source Contribution Documents, Prepared for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Submitted at the request of the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology 4/19/11
http://www.fluoridealert.org/uploads/thiessen.4-19-11.pdf

Thiessen concludes her review of the research on the effects of water fluoridation on oral health by stating: "the available data, responsibly interpreted, indicate little or no beneficial effect of water fluoridation on oral health." [p. 12].

Hi,
It's rare that a debate on fluoridation occurs... so this is the first I can remember ever hearing. 
Good on Kyle for being willing to speak up. I assume she is being paid to speak up? Which blunts her message at least somewhat.
It is still unclear whether Kyle had read Dr Paul Connett's book on Fluoridation (I hope she did... any rebuttal presumes knowledge)... but at least she gave coherent answers.
The host did an excellent job of injecting interesting questions and people into the debate to break it up. It did throw Dr Connett off but he did get more air time than Kyle... so this seemed reasonable. The questions and comments (from  callers) were both pro and anti fluoride thus showing no favouritism. The host seemed to have an excellent range of interesting questions up his sleeve to keep the debate constantly moving onwards to new ground.
It's pleasing that Kyle was able to keep the conversation civil as did Dr Connett. They both mostly kept to the facts and tried not to let personalities intrude too much.
The one thing that both sides appeared to concede was that too few studies have been carried out on the systemic effects of fluoride. Kyle also appeared to concede that at the upper level of 4 ppm the majority of the CDC expert panel were worried that this was too much fluoride.
The only place Kyle seemed to be clearly denying the evidence was that no other adverse effects occurred. If infants are exceeding the recommended daily doses... then this is obviously a hazard in the opinion of those setting those daily doses. Likewise for any other warnings that are place for high risk groups.
Paul put an excellent range of questions to Kyle... and given the timings listed earlier it seems reasonable to concede that Kyle had less time than Dr Connett and thus was not able to answer all of them.
Overall well done. Pity this kind of thing does not happen more often.
:-)

At the heart of this issue is the contention that fluoride is an effective medication in the first place. The evidence overwhelmingly shows otherwise. Suspending that argument for the moment, consider that anyone purporting to represent health groups, as does Ms. Menagh-Johnson, violates a fundamental rule about medical practice: in prescribing medication, responsible physicians routinely specify dosage. The proponents of forced fluoridation call for indiscriminate dosing of the entire population regardless of age, weight, height or any other pre-existing condition. This is reckless at best, at worse, criminal. Let those who want fluoride ingest all they want. For the rest of us, leave it out of our water.

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